"Big guys tend to have many protections and security," he said conversationally. "Taking one out can lead to unfortunate turf wars and people are stuck in the middle." It was true that some had to be taken out for the good of the community. As long as there weren't whole raids, he supposed he would not revise his opinion yet. "Most people don't care about the desperate. They are considered less valuable except for consumption."

He drew in a breath of air and held it in his lungs. He somehow was not surprised that this man and Silco had met.

"Interesting is a word to describe him," he finally said, relenting a touch. "Did he fling his pitch at you yet, or working his way up to it after feeling out your stances first?"

"Everyone has moral grey areas." He was watching Jason closer now, not bothering to hide it either. He needed to determine if this guy was a potential threat to falling under Silco's charisma and offerings. "With him, sometimes the area under your feet moves so you two align on more and more."

He tucked his hands into his jacket pockets, and he could hear himself in the words that Jason spoke next. The great debate. There wasn't enough resources or a will to use them on a grand scale, so it was up to a handful of people and it came to them to decide where to apply their time and energy. Take down the big fish? Who will fill that void next. Work with the people, they are still oppressed. Don't and they lose hope because the fight is too far above them to feel the effects.

"I know what that's like," he admitted. "It's a daily struggle. Unfortunately protecting who you can means you can't save everyone. There will always be victims as you work your way to long-term changes, but from my experience, you need to enable people to be able to stand up for themselves and their neighbours. They just need back-up to make sure it sticks and they aren't overwhelmed." He sighed, hanging his head. "It's... a fine line. We don't walk it perfectly each time."

He shrugged his shoulders like this topic wasn't that much of a big deal. For him, it wasn't. He had spent a lifetime fighting for equality and relevance, and he had no issue talking about it most of the time.

"I did, yeah. From my first memories," he reflected simply, reaching up to rub his chin with his palm. "It's easier if you aren't doing it alone, but sometimes, it's better because you aren't putting your support at risk either. There is strength in numbers."

"It's the only way to succeed," he agreed. "Hopefully your support is based on want and not either fear or payment. You can earn more out of people if they are invested emotionally to help." Perhaps that was a little dig at Silco. The man earned loyalties yes, but everything came with a measure of willingness to sacrifice.

He had once had an excellent network of people who he could trust, who he could work with and making the necessary incremental changes necessary. It would never be fast enough for some, but Vander had lost the willingness for extreme shock and awe after the Day of Ash.

"Ah, so it's the family business then," he reflected. It made sense given what he had seen in the memory that Jason had shared with him. "Nothing like the bonds of family to be your best support out there where the work needs to be done."

He was curious of the dynamic between Jason and all the siblings. Would it be anything like how own old relationship with his 'siblings'?

"And? Family is family regardless of if you're blood related as far as I'm concerned," he said. He was discovering that many places didn't entirely understand the sentiment. High mortality rates and a societal necessity to group for survival was how it worked.

He nodded. "Even if you don't, I expect you still mostly support each other or at least rib each other."

Well, he suspected that being second oldest provided extra privileges when it came to ribbing the others. He had never been trapped in the middle of siblings, but he had seen others that did exactly that.

"Only once or twice? I suppose you're old enough to not see them every day." He inclined his head. "Yeah, I used to."

"She was killed," he said simply, keeping his tone carefully neutral. "It was partially my fault." He had given up the rhetoric that it was all his fault as they had all been adults at the time and had made decisions understanding the potential risk. Still, if he hadn't turned at that moment...

"And my brother is that interesting guy you've talking to a couple of times. We had a falling out." And that was being incredibly generous and tactful.

He made a point of shrugging his shoulders. He and Silco had had enough public confrontations on the network that it would be easy to see their animosity towards each other and put two-and-two together. He would save Jason the trouble of digging. Investigators liked to investigate after all.

"That was some time ago. We're just maneuvering around each other here." He wouldn't tell Jason to avoid Silco; he wouldn't tell that to anyone. They could decide for themselves.

"Have you? It stirs people's emotions for better or worse." That had always been the way Silco was, and it had been useful and even amusing before their fall out. Now, he understood far more how dangerous it was, and the train only provided more evidence of that.

"I take it you weren't particularly impressed?"

"I don't disagree with that sentiment," he said softly. There was a reason that he had once considered himself family with Silco, and they had both wanted the same things back then.

"The problem is that is does work, if you're willing to make enough sacrifices and see only the goal."

Vander finally turned his head to look directly at Jason, and it was clear to him that there was wisdom in those statements. Someone who had been there and seen the ugly side of pushing for change that went too far.

"I can see why he talks to you," he remarked softly. "You reached the end of your rope. I reached the end of mine. I don't think he's reached the end of his." Because at a certain point, the pile of corpses meant the a successful revolution left no one in its wake to benefit from it.

Vander shrugged his shoulders. "I suppose we're in the same boat then. He's been calling me a coward for years I expect," he said just as calmly. "You'll get used to it."

It had stopped bothering him. He wasn't willing to sacrifice everything they were to a fight against Piltover knowing what he did about it now. They couldn't win, and fear would only make them crack down harder. People would suffer.